JOEL CLARK, TRICIA HALSEY & JEEVA RATNATHICAM / DEEPLY ROOTED STORIES
In this special episode, Jason Clark introduces Deeply Rooted and the creative team behind the stories they have been quietly building for years—films, children’s books, and family-centered adventures designed to reveal the goodness of God, strengthen families, and awaken imagination. From the emotional feature film ALL IN to the wildly imaginative young adult book series I Changed the World, this conversation dives into storytelling, faith, creativity, healing, and why the stories we believe shape the people we become. It’s funny, vulnerable, inspiring, and full of behind-the-scenes insight into a growing movement of redemptive storytelling
For more info on the I Changed the World Books Series Offer, go to:
https://ichangedtheworldoffer.com/
For more information on Deeply Rooted, go to:
https://deeplyrootedstories.com/
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Podcast intro and outro music by Wilde Assembly
Reveal / Defend
Years ago, I was on staff at a church where the worship leader and I had radical differences about theology. One week, I preached a message declaring that everyone in the room was a spiritual giant. I was speaking to our identity, our original innocence, and the invitation to participate in the finished work of the Cross.
The following week, the worship pastor stood with an actual whip in his hand and preached the opposite. He declared we are prone to wander and that God looks away. “There are no spiritual giants in this room,” he said. It was heartbreaking. His theology, to me, was wrong, toxic, and deeply flawed.
I stood in the back of the room for the third and final service. “Father, what am I doing here?” I asked. And then He reminded me who He is and who I am. LOVE. Measureless, other-centered, self-giving, transforming LOVE.
“You’re here to be LOVE—to be a walking revelation of My affection.” He said. “You’re here to reveal, not defend.” He reminded me that Love keeps no record of wrong and thus has no right to be offended.
Then my Father highlighted a fella who stood in the back row, arms stretched wide, tears streaming down his face. “That man is having an encounter with my love.” My Father said.
For a split second, I was annoyed. “But the message is wrong, toxic, it’s deeply flawed!” I thought. Then just as quick, my heart shifted as I heard my Father whisper, “Yes, Jason, the
message is wrong, toxic, it’s deeply flawed. But one encounter with My love is more powerful than anything else. My love is transformative, sustaining. My love is the long game. And I’ve never limited myself to your poor theology.”
That moment defined my ministry. God meets us where we are, in the middle of our flawed theology. He speaks in the language of our understanding.
I realized that man was unlikely ready to hear the good news as I had discovered it; he was lost in the knowledge of good and evil, a prodigal who only understood slaving, the context of transaction. It’s heartbreaking, but the whip message was the language of his understanding.
Was his understanding deeply flawed? Yes. But that’s the road he was traveling, and thus that’s the road our Father met him on. Our Father chased Him down and embraced Him, knowing that embrace would ultimately, over time, and hopefully in this life, reveal the Gospel. The good news that would set him truly and fully free. There is no shadow of turning with Thee, and thus there is no earning, no whip. Love is unconditional.
The point? Our Father did not limit His kind affection to the flawed words coming from the man on stage. No, our Father ran to meet his son, who only wanted to know he was loved! Our Father knew that over time, His measureless love would transform any part of the son’s wrong, toxic, and deeply flawed theology.
I’ve given my life to rethinking my theology. It matters. The closer we are to knowing Greater Love — the more our God lens is like Jesus — the more we experience eternal life. But it’s a journey.
My journey into this union grace has been 51 hard-fought, intentional years where my Father continues to faithfully meet me in my wrong, toxic, and deeply flawed theology.
And this is why I’m encouraged today. You see, I’m not alone. And while it’s taken me 51 years of growing conviction in this Greater love gospel, these days, I meet people who are just as confident at half my age. And then there are the fathers and mothers who are mature in their union – LOVE.
Union, grace, it’s in the ether. We have books, and language, ministries, people, the church, deep and wide, maturing in love.
Right now, there is a spiritual hunger in our world, while at the same time, there is an awakening within the church. Yes, there are distorted versions of Jesus being presented and leveraged, but there’s also a groundswell of sons and daughters, brothers and sisters, friends who are convinced in His affection.
Yesterday, I recognized that man from the church years ago in the upraised arms of hundreds of thousands as we celebrated Charlie Kirk’s life and mourned his death. And I heard my Father whisper. “Yes, Jason, some of the message is wrong, toxic, it’s deeply flawed. But one encounter with My love is more powerful than anything else. My love is transformative, sustaining. My love is the long game.”
I watched yesterday in the liberty of a gospel that doesn’t require agreement or the “right” theology. A gospel that isn’t limited to our finite fears but is a measureless love that casts out fear. A Love that meets us where we are and, thank God, doesn’t leave us there but journeys with us. A love that transforms.
Many are worried about how Charlie’s passing has been politicized. Some are concerned about the left, others about the right. We live in a dualistic world, where the knowledge of good and evil always creates a vortex that pulls people in. It is a tired and powerless waste of time. There is no eternal life to be found in it.
But here’s a word of encouragement: we’re not here to defend, but to reveal. May we grow ever sure in His love.
My heart goes out to Charlie’s wife and kids, his family. Praying grace, grace, grace.
BILL WINN WITH C. BAXTER KRUGER / GOOD DIRT
In this week’s conversation, long-term friend and host of the Good Dirt, Bill Winn, sits down with Baxter and Jason to explore the sacred-secular divide that has shaped so much of Christian thinking. From hilarious tales of roosters and bees to profound moments about porta potties and car repairs, Baxter, Jason, and Bill unpack how the presence of the Father, Son, and Spirit infuses all of life—not just church services or “religious” activities.
Together they challenge the false split between sacred and secular, showing how every vocation, and every moment in life can all be seen as sacred as we participate in the great life and dance of the Father, Son, and Spirit. Then the conversation turns to explore what union with Jesus truly means. Together, they unpack how union ends religious striving, revealing that we have always belonged to the Father, Son, and Spirit—even before the foundation of the world.
Through personal stories, scripture, and practical insights, they show that union isn’t about trying to get to God but waking up to the truth that Jesus has already united himself with us—even in our darkest places. It is this good news that brings a peace and freedom beyond anything we’ve known before.
For more on Bill Winn:
Website: https://www.billwinnbooks.com/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3_V5DDa9TfuWM4IORLtAwQ
For more on Dr. C. Baxter Kruger:
https://perichoresis.org/
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Podcast intro and outro music by Wilde Assembly
MATTHEW HESTER & JAMIE ENGLEHART / HOLY GROUND EVERYWHERE
In this engaging conversation, Jamie Englehart, Matthew Hester and Jason explore the themes of ministry, vulnerability, and the sacred-secular divide. They discuss the importance of recognizing God in all aspects of life, the call to full-time kingdom ministry, and the shift from traditional church structures to a more inclusive understanding of community and leadership. The conversation emphasizes the need for authenticity, healing, and sincerity in ministry, encouraging leaders to embrace their vulnerabilities and foster genuine connections with others.
The guys also explore the themes of vulnerability, authenticity, and love within ministry. They discuss the role of armor bearers, the importance of community support, and the need for grace in leadership. The conversation delves into the nature of God’s love and the journey towards maturity in one’s relationship with Him. They emphasize the significance of being real and honest in ministry, as well as the transformative power of love.
For more information on Matthew Hester
https://www.hesterministries.org/
For more information on Bishop Jamie Englehart
https://connectinternationalministries.com/leadership/
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Podcast intro and outro music by Wilde Assembly
STEVE CHALKE / THE JOURNEY OF ACCEPTANCE AND BELONGING
In this conversation, Steve Chalke and Jason explore themes of faith, love, and inclusion, reflecting on personal experiences and the legacy of influential figures like Tony Campolo. They discuss the impact of poverty and trauma on communities, the nature of God’s love, and the importance of relational theology.
The dialogue emphasizes the need for a re-evaluation of traditional theological views, advocating for a more inclusive and loving approach within the church and society.
For more information on Steve Chalke:
Oasis Charitable Trust: www.oasisuk.org
Academy For Hope: https://www.academyforhope.org/
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Podcast intro and outro music by Wilde Assembly
TULLIAN TCHIVIDJIAN / IT IS FINISHED
In this engaging conversation, Tullian Tchividjian and Jason explore the transformative power of grace and the theological shifts that lead to a deeper understanding of God’s love. They discuss personal stories of struggle and redemption, the importance of safe spaces in relationships, and the cultural reflections on grace in society. The conversation also touches on the role of recovery in understanding grace and the challenges faced within religious circles.
For more info on Tullian Tchividjian:
Website: https://www.tullian.net/
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Podcast intro and outro music by Wilde Assembly
RETHINKING GOD WITH TACOS / CHAPTER ONE: WHAT IS THE GOSPEL?
In this podcast, Jason Clark introduces his new book, ‘Rethinking God with Tacos,’ which explores themes of union, relationship with God, and the nature of the gospel. He shares insights from various conversations with guests on his podcast, emphasizing the importance of understanding the gospel as good news and the relational aspect of faith. The podcast also highlights the significance of community and upcoming events related to the book.
TAKEAWAYS
– The book ‘Rethinking God with Tacos’ is a culmination of conversations from the podcast.
– Union is a central theme throughout the book.
– The gospel is presented as good news, not just a theological concept.
– Jason emphasizes the importance of relationship with God.
– Baxter Kruger is highlighted as a foundational voice in the book.
– The nature of God is explored through a relational lens.
– The journey of faith is one of discovery and transformation.
– Community plays a vital role in the exploration of faith.
– Upcoming events will foster deeper connections and discussions.
For more on THE BOOK & COMMUNITY
Website: https://afamilystory.audiencetap.com/qc/wU0gQoHxDx
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Podcast intro and outro music by Wilde Assembly
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Hidden To Discover
“…and then He disappeared from their sight.”
I love the Emmaus Road incognito Jesus, and I love the big reveal, but for a long time, I felt His sudden disappearance after they realized it was Him was a bit of a letdown. What was that all about, Jesus? I asked for years.
Then, one day, I discovered the answer hidden in the very next verse: “Were not our hearts burning within us while He talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?”
By coming to them as a Stranger, Jesus sidestepped their certainties and engaged their faith. “Did not our hearts burn…” or essentially, “Did not our hearts know Him even when our minds couldn’t yet understand?” Jesus wanted them to engage in a relational burning because He’s a relational God.
When Jesus hid Himself in the Wayfaring Stranger on the Emmaus Road, it was so His friend’s ideology, theology, eschatology, and all other ologies, wouldn’t get in the way of the heart-burning relational experience of God with us, God within us.
Just so, after He broke the bread, Jesus disappeared from their sight—He hid again—for the same reason!
I suggest that if Jesus hadn’t disappeared from their sight, His friend’s limited understanding and transactional certainty would have likely come rushing back as questions that would have cut them off from simply reveling in the wonder of eternal life.
As Johnny Cash sings, “Love is a burning thing.” And I believe Jesus wanted His friends to recognize and revel in the burning.
I think Jesus disappeared from their sight so:
- Their Scriptural certainties wouldn’t blind them from discovering Jesus within Scripture. 1
- Their limited knowledge regarding the love of God wouldn’t cut them off from experiencing the height, depth, length, and breadth of a measureless love that surpasses knowledge. 2
- Their transactional understanding of a relationship with God wouldn’t limit their ability to experience friendship with God. 3
- Their cruel theology of separation wouldn’t undermine their ability to embrace a kindness that leads to repentance. 4
- Their elevation of the Law of lack wouldn’t divorce them from surrendering to the liberty of Grace. 5
- Their narrow understanding of mercy could bend the knee to everlasting mercy—the same with forgiveness.
- Their retributive thoughts on justice wouldn’t restrain them from engaging in reconciliation and restoration.
I think Jesus disappeared from their sight for the same reason He came to them as a Stranger, so they could move beyond their ability to understand and into faith; that revelatory burning within their hearts—a confident surrender to a measureless love that reconciles, restores, and transforms!
After He broke bread and their eyes were opened, after their heads caught up with their hearts, Jesus disappeared from their sight—but He didn’t leave. Love never leaves. Love simply went incognito once again so they could steward the burning and recognize the indwelling.
As soon as He disappeared from their sight, they saw what was always there—revelation; Greater Love is alive within us!
And as this revelation possessed them, as eternal life began to take hold, as measureless love burned within, they rose from the table and raced back to Jerusalem so that their brothers and sisters, indeed the whole world, would know our Father’s great affection just as Jesus knew it.
1 John 5:39-40
2 Ephesians 3:18
3 John 15:15
4 Romans 2:4
5 Romans 11:6
This article is excerpted from my book, Leaving and Finding Jesus
Order Now At
Recalculating
Back before GPS, in the days when, as a lost traveler, I had to stop and ask directions from some old-timer—always an old-timer—upon hearing my desired destination, he’d shake his head as though I was willfully lost and say, “Son, you can’t get there from here.”
Sure, you can, fella, I’d think. If I’m here and I need to get there, then there’s no other way to get there, than from here. So, unless we’re having an existential conversation in the parking lot of a Piggly Wiggly, I’m certain I can get there from here if you’d be so kind as to give me directions.
For decades, I only employed that phrase to cleverly expound on its contradiction. Then, one late night several years ago, I navigated for my brother, Joel, as we traveled from Charlotte to Lexington for a conference. By navigated, I mean, I listened to Siri communicate directions and then repeated after her.
Siri: “Turn left,”
“Turn left,” I said, looking up from my phone and pointing.
“Joel! Left! There!”
“I can’t turn left, bro. Look!” Joel responded as we passed our hotel, and I immediately recognized the problem. A freshly cemented three-foot-high concrete wall had been installed in the median between the left turn and our destination. We couldn’t turn left.
As we drove past and Siri jabbered, “Recalculating,” I heard myself saying that rascal phrase, “You can’t get there from here.”
Then, with epiphanous enthusiasm, “Oh? Oh! It’s about the road you’re traveling!”
* * *
For most of my life, the story of The Rich Young Ruler has been preached by well-intentioned What am I still lacking preachers. It’s the message of separation where humanity is outside of God, and the preacher spends most of his message trying to measure the distance between us.
The What am I still lacking message is a self-righteous religious attempt to earn something Jesus already gave.
And like the Rich Young Ruler, we often walk away grieving as we continue to strive down that frustrating road of lack where God is distant and eternal life is just out of reach; always, well, later…
“Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich person to enter the kingdom of heaven…it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” 1
That’s what Jesus told His disciples about the transactional road the Rich Young Ruler traveled.
When they heard it, they “…were very astonished and said, ‘Then who can be saved?’”
Exactly!
Who can be saved is a good question and similar to What am I still lacking?
Both questions recognize the futile nature of a transactional approach to God. Both recognize a concrete median cutting us off from experiencing eternal life here and now.
Jesus responded, “With people, this is impossible…you might as well be a camel and your destination the eye of a needle…but with God, all things are possible.”
In other words, Greater Love was saying, “Go sell everything you have and follow me.”
Those were Jesus’ words to the eternal life-seeking Rich Young Ruler.
Everything? The young fella thought, overwhelmed—and for good reason.
Everything included the ideological and theological certainties upon which he’d built his entire existence. Jesus had just deconstructed his understanding to its very foundation and exposed the young man’s certainties as a three-foot concrete median cutting him off from experiencing eternal life.
It’s impossible to reach my destination on the road I’m traveling, the young fella realized, and he left grieving. But he did not leave empty-handed nor alone. Jesus sent him on his way with a GPS.
Every day after his encounter with Jesus, the young fella could hear Siri jabbering like a Holy Spirit within him.
“Recalculating! Son, you can’t get there from here! You’re gonna have to leave your transactional approach to a relationship with God and reject that ego that thinks righteousness can be achieved.”
“Recalculating! Brother, you can’t get there from here. I invite you to redefine and rediscover all your ologies in the reconciling truth of a Love that never leaves or forsakes us.”
“Recalculating! Buddy, you can’t get there from here. Leave your systematic earning systems, lay down your religious obsession with hierarchy, put away your right to punish, give up every dualistic certainty, sell all you have, pick up your cross—my Greater Love heart for the least of these—and awaken to our friendship.
Son, follow me.” 2
It was an instruction. But also an invitation to experience aiṓnios, “the unique quality of God’s life at work in us; an experience of union with God that is…simultaneously outside of time, inside of time, and beyond time.” 3
It was an invitation to eternal life in the ever-present now.
And Jesus’ invitation wasn’t given with a time limit. And that’s worth noting. The young man wasn’t Cinderella, and Jesus was no fairy Godmother.
There is no when the clock strikes twelve addenda on eternal life. Just that rascal Holy Spirit GPS, an eternal invitation to a friendship that recalculates everything. Just that old-timer in a Piggly Wiggly parking lot saying, “Son, or daughter, you can’t get there from here,” so that one day, we might experience an epiphanous moment in which we can repent and discover…
“Oh? Oh! It’s about the road we’re traveling!”
1 Matthew 19:16-29
2 Luke 29:23
3 Aiónios – https://biblehub.com/greek/166.htm
This article is excerpted from my book, Leaving and Finding Jesus
Order Now At
I Don’t Know…But God Is Good…As Jesus Revealed Him
Years ago, while visiting my folks at a family reunion, I overheard my mom in the kitchen telling my sister, Aimee, how Thomas was her favorite disciple of Jesus.
I was a little surprised by her choice and thought I’d be clever.
“Mom, I don’t want to be a doubting Thomas, but I’m pretty sure your favorite disciple was the fella with the underwhelming moniker,” I playfully and sarcastically yelled into the kitchen.
My mom came out of the kitchen and gave me a fiery look. One I saw too many times in my youth, a look that releases the awe-inspiring fear of God. “Jason, it’s just horrible we call him that! Think about the Scripture we have because Thomas was bold enough to ask when the others weren’t?”
And just like that, my whole thought about Thomas changed. Thanks, Mom! I am so grateful for your wisdom and understanding!
* * *
Jesus, attempting to prepare His disciples for the coming dark days of His death, tells them, “You know the way to the place where I am going.” 1
And John leans over to Peter and whispers. “Hey, Pete?”
“What?” Peter responds in a whisper yell. Peter was a horrible whisperer.
“Do you know the way to the place Jesus is going?” John asks with sincerity.
Peter furrows his brow, “Of course!”
John raises an eyebrow, “So you have no idea then.”
Peter waves John off brusquely. John is a little concerned, but then he remembers and smiles, “No worries, Thomas will ask Him,” he whispers, and Peter grins.
Then, like clockwork, Thomas asked. And we are all infinitely glad he did.
“Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?” 2
“We don’t know.” It was nice Thomas included the other disciples in his ignorance, but because of his question, we all have an answer, and it’s one of our all-time favorites!
“Jesus answered, ‘I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.’”
Thomas’ “we don’t know” made room for Jesus to speak to our faith, to highlight the mystery and revelation, “You will know” and “From now on, you do know…” Jesus’ answer is a beautiful invitation to live in the tension of not knowing with a promise of knowing—in the faith of I don’t know…but God is good.
Like always, Jesus is speaking in the infinite, mysterious, trustworthy language of sovereign love.
John and Peter looked at each other after Jesus was finished. They still didn’t understand, but that wasn’t unusual. Jesus was always saying stuff that was not only confusing but also often seriously controversial.
The fact is, most of the time, most of the people listening to Jesus had little to no idea what He was talking about.
One time, Jesus told His followers that they could only experience eternal life if they ate His flesh and drank His blood. A lot of people stopped following Jesus that day. When Jesus asked the twelve disciples if they would leave Him also, Peter famously said, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.” 3
Interpretation—I don’t know… but God is good, and that’s enough.
Peter, John, Thomas, and many others have revealed that to truly follow Jesus, we must be willing to live in the faith of not knowing and the invitation to know; to “get wisdom. Though it cost all (we) have, get understanding.”
We must embrace the mystery of sovereign love if we are to gain revelation.
In the age of certainty, we are invited to live in the faith of, I don’t know…but God is good…as Jesus revealed Him.
Jesus is the way to where we are going; He is the lens by which to discover wisdom, the key by which to unlock understanding.
I don’t look poorly upon Thomas’ doubt anymore. He was a man of faith willing to live in the tension of the question so he might discover the whole story, the greater revelation. Thomas gave everything up to follow Jesus. Thomas is believed to have shared the gospel of sovereign love, planting churches in Syria, Babylon (Iraq), Persia (Iran), and even into India before dying by a spear, martyred for his profound faith in the way the truth and the life.
1 John 14:4
2 John 14:5-7
3 John 6:68
This article is excerpted from I Don’t Know, But God Is Good, chapter ten of, God Is (Not) In Control: The Whole Story Is Better Than You Think
A Family Story has partnered with TWS (The Writers Society) for the release of this Refreshed Edition.
“In God Is (Not) In Control, Jason gives us the liberty to color outside the lines of our many unperceived biases about God. He courageously addresses the “logic of love,” which always leads us on a journey from knowing, to not knowing, to a new knowing…This book is an invitation to those who realize that if we are afraid of the answers, we will never ask the hard questions. I applaud Jason for the courage he’s demonstrated to reintroduce us to a God who is immeasurably good and relentlessly loves us regardless of where we are on our journey.”
—Dr. Randall Worley
Author of Brush Strokes of Grace, Wandering and Wondering, & A Manifesto for Spiritual Searchers