CHRIS GORE / HOW GOOD IS THE FATHER, REALLY?

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What if Jesus didn’t come to change the Father’s mind about us—but to change our minds about the Father? Jason sits down with Chris Gore to explore his new book, How Good Is the Father, Really?, and the staggering goodness of God revealed in Jesus. From union and the cross to wrath, punishment, healing, and justice, Chris challenges the punitive God many of us inherited and invites us to discover a Father who is “always only good.” Along the way, they explore why the Father never turned His face from Jesus, how wrath might actually be love confronting everything that destroys the beloved, and why the gospel isn’t about escaping earth but bringing love, healing, hope, and life to the world right now. For more info on Chris: https://www.chrisgore.org/

For more info on Chris:
https://www.chrisgore.org/

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Podcast intro and outro music by Wilde Assembly

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JUSTIN PAUL ABRAHAM / THE FUTURE IS BETTER THAN YOU THINK

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Justin Paul Abraham joins Jason for one of the most expansive conversations, exploring what happens when the gospel is no longer driven by fear, but by union, joy, and the limitless goodness of God. Together they unpack mystical encounters, the logic of love, contemplative spirituality, technology, creativity, AI, the future of humanity, and why the Kingdom isn’t retreating from the world—it’s transforming it. From the charismatic movement to ancient Christian mysticism, from heaven invading earth to discovering Christ in every corner of creation, this conversation invites listeners into a bigger, brighter vision of the gospel where love is the organizing principle of reality, and the future has never been more hopeful.

For more on Justin:
https://www.cobh.live/

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Podcast intro and outro music by Wilde Assembly

JOEL CLARK, TRICIA HALSEY & JEEVA RATNATHICAM / DEEPLY ROOTED STORIES

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In this special episode, Jason Clark introduces Deeply Rooted and the creative team behind the stories they have been quietly building for years—films, children’s books, and family-centered adventures designed to reveal the goodness of God, strengthen families, and awaken imagination. From the emotional feature film ALL IN to the wildly imaginative young adult book series I Changed the World, this conversation dives into storytelling, faith, creativity, healing, and why the stories we believe shape the people we become. It’s funny, vulnerable, inspiring, and full of behind-the-scenes insight into a growing movement of redemptive storytelling

For more info on the I Changed the World Books Series Offer, go to:
https://ichangedtheworldoffer.com/

For more information on Deeply Rooted, go to:
https://deeplyrootedstories.com/

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JOHN CROWDER / GIFTING VS. CHARACTER? NO—IT’S A CHRISTOLOGY PROBLEM

Gifting vs Character? No—It’s a Christology Problem

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This conversation is a rich, honest exploration of deconstruction, charismatic culture, union with God, suffering, anger, and the actual shape of the gospel. Jason and John Crowder move past surface-level recent controversy and into the deeper issue beneath it all: separation-based theology. Rather than framing church failures as simply “gifting versus character,” they discuss Christology—whether our identity is rooted in union with Christ or in striving, performance, and spiritual hierarchy.

The guys unpack how revival culture, moralism, and celebrity Christianity often create blind spots that protect systems over people, while the true gospel restores beloved identity, co-suffering love, and embodied grace. The conversation ultimately returns to Jesus—not as a spiritual ladder to climb, but as the revelation that we are already included, already loved, and invited to participate in a kingdom shaped by self-giving love rather than power, outrage, or control.

More on John Crowder
https://www.johncrowder.net/

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LILY CROWDER / A MONDAY IN FEBRURAY

A Monday In February

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In this deeply honest and sacred conversation, Lily Crowder shares the unthinkable journey of losing her 15-year-old son to suicide—and the slow, tender trust that followed. The conversation explored grief, trauma, and the dismantling of the God we thought we knew, making space for a bigger, more present God who meets us in our darkest places. This episode isn’t about easy answers—it’s about learning to sit in pain, to feel what we’ve been taught to avoid, and to rediscover beauty in the smallest moments, like the sound of birds breaking through the silence. If you’ve ever faced loss, wrestled with faith, or wondered if healing is possible, this conversation offers language, companionship, and hope.

For more information about Lily
https://www.lilycrowder.com/

BRIAN ZAHND / UNION, PILGRIMAGE, & UNSEEN EXISTENCES

The Gospel Is Better Than You've Been Told: Union, Pilgrimage, and Unseen Existences

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What if heaven isn’t a distant destination — but a different dimension that’s closer than we think? In this conversation, Jason sits down with theologian, pastor, and author Brian Zahnd to explore his new book Unseen Existences — and what it means to recover a vision of transcendence in a world flattened by consumerism, politics, and pragmatism.

We talk about:

Why losing sight of heaven turns Christianity into partisan politics
The pilgrimage of the soul — and why nothing real happens fast
What Jesus weeping at Lazarus’s tomb tells us about God’s co-suffering with us
The prayer Brian prayed on June 4th, 2000 that changed everything
The censored chapter his publisher wouldn’t let him include — and where you can find it
Judas, Lazarus, universal hope, and the long arc of love

This is one of those conversations that reminds you the gospel is so much better than we’ve been told.

To learn more about Brians:
brianzahnd.com
brianzahnd.substack.com

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NATHAN APFFEL / THE RELIGION BUSINESS

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In this conversation, Nathan Apffel shares his journey with Brooke Waters and Jason from being a filmmaker in the action sports industry to being a creator of a docuseries that explores the complexities of faith and the church. He discusses his personal experiences that shaped his understanding of God, the role of fatherhood in his spiritual awakening, and the importance of transparency and accountability within the church.

Nathan emphasizes the need for the church to evolve and address its issues while highlighting the beauty of community and personal ministry. The conversation also sets the stage for the second season of ‘The Religion Business,’ which aims to confront deeper issues within the church and offer tangible solutions.

Then the conversation turns to the role of the church in addressing social issues such as foster care, homelessness, and child sexual abuse. Nathan emphasizes the importance of community empowerment, the need for reform within church structures, and the potential for innovative models of gathering that foster connection and support.

To learn more about Nathan or The Religion Business:
https://www.thereligionbusiness.com/about

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KRUGER, THOMPSON, ENGLEHART & MILLER / THE UNDILUTED GOSPEL

The Undiluted Gospel, hosted by Dubb Alexander & Jason Clark

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This conversation took place at the 2025 RGWT Reunion with Baxter Kruger, Damon Thompson, Jamie Englehart, and Tommy Miller. It was hosted by Dubb Alexander and Jason Clark and explored the transformative power of the undiluted gospel and the role of the Holy Spirit in believers’ lives, emphasizing the profound impact of proclaiming faith in Jesus.

For more information on:
C. Baxter Kruger: https://perichoresis.org/
Damon Thompson: https://www.damonthompson.com/
Jamie Englehart: https://connectinternationalministries.com/
Tommy Miller: https://www.ncfc.church/

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DAVID DE VOS / EVERYONE IS A CHILD OF GOD

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In this conversation, David de Vos shares his journey of faith, vulnerability, and the transformative power of God’s love. He discusses his healing journey, the impact of his book ‘Raw’, and the importance of inclusion and acceptance in faith. David emphasizes the need to redefine ministry and evangelism, focusing on compassion and connection with others. He introduces his new book ‘Everyone is a Child of God’, exploring the universal love of God and the journey of self-acceptance. The conversation highlights the significance of community and the call to love without borders.

For more information on David de Vos
https://www.youtube.com/c/DaviddeVos
https://www.instagram.com/david_de_vos_/

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Reveal / Defend

Years ago, I was on staff at a church where the worship leader and I had radical differences about theology. One week, I preached a message declaring that everyone in the room was a spiritual giant. I was speaking to our identity, our original innocence, and the invitation to participate in the finished work of the Cross.

The following week, the worship pastor stood with an actual whip in his hand and preached the opposite. He declared we are prone to wander and that God looks away. “There are no spiritual giants in this room,” he said. It was heartbreaking. His theology, to me, was wrong, toxic, and deeply flawed.

I stood in the back of the room for the third and final service. “Father, what am I doing here?” I asked. And then He reminded me who He is and who I am. LOVE. Measureless, other-centered, self-giving, transforming LOVE.

“You’re here to be LOVE—to be a walking revelation of My affection.” He said. “You’re here to reveal, not defend.” He reminded me that Love keeps no record of wrong and thus has no right to be offended.

Then my Father highlighted a fella who stood in the back row, arms stretched wide, tears streaming down his face. “That man is having an encounter with my love.” My Father said.

For a split second, I was annoyed. “But the message is wrong, toxic, it’s deeply flawed!” I thought. Then just as quick, my heart shifted as I heard my Father whisper, “Yes, Jason, the

message is wrong, toxic, it’s deeply flawed. But one encounter with My love is more powerful than anything else. My love is transformative, sustaining. My love is the long game. And I’ve never limited myself to your poor theology.”

That moment defined my ministry. God meets us where we are, in the middle of our flawed theology. He speaks in the language of our understanding.

I realized that man was unlikely ready to hear the good news as I had discovered it; he was lost in the knowledge of good and evil, a prodigal who only understood slaving, the context of transaction. It’s heartbreaking, but the whip message was the language of his understanding.

Was his understanding deeply flawed? Yes. But that’s the road he was traveling, and thus that’s the road our Father met him on. Our Father chased Him down and embraced Him, knowing that embrace would ultimately, over time, and hopefully in this life, reveal the Gospel. The good news that would set him truly and fully free. There is no shadow of turning with Thee, and thus there is no earning, no whip. Love is unconditional.

The point? Our Father did not limit His kind affection to the flawed words coming from the man on stage. No, our Father ran to meet his son, who only wanted to know he was loved! Our Father knew that over time, His measureless love would transform any part of the son’s wrong, toxic, and deeply flawed theology.

I’ve given my life to rethinking my theology. It matters. The closer we are to knowing Greater Love — the more our God lens is like Jesus — the more we experience eternal life. But it’s a journey.

My journey into this union grace has been 51 hard-fought, intentional years where my Father continues to faithfully meet me in my wrong, toxic, and deeply flawed theology.

And this is why I’m encouraged today. You see, I’m not alone. And while it’s taken me 51 years of growing conviction in this Greater love gospel, these days, I meet people who are just as confident at half my age. And then there are the fathers and mothers who are mature in their union – LOVE.

Union, grace, it’s in the ether. We have books, and language, ministries, people, the church, deep and wide, maturing in love.

Right now, there is a spiritual hunger in our world, while at the same time, there is an awakening within the church. Yes, there are distorted versions of Jesus being presented and leveraged, but there’s also a groundswell of sons and daughters, brothers and sisters, friends who are convinced in His affection.

Yesterday, I recognized that man from the church years ago in the upraised arms of hundreds of thousands as we celebrated Charlie Kirk’s life and mourned his death. And I heard my Father whisper. “Yes, Jason, some of the message is wrong, toxic, it’s deeply flawed. But one encounter with My love is more powerful than anything else. My love is transformative, sustaining. My love is the long game.”

I watched yesterday in the liberty of a gospel that doesn’t require agreement or the “right” theology. A gospel that isn’t limited to our finite fears but is a measureless love that casts out fear. A Love that meets us where we are and, thank God, doesn’t leave us there but journeys with us. A love that transforms.

Many are worried about how Charlie’s passing has been politicized. Some are concerned about the left, others about the right. We live in a dualistic world, where the knowledge of good and evil always creates a vortex that pulls people in. It is a tired and powerless waste of time. There is no eternal life to be found in it.

But here’s a word of encouragement: we’re not here to defend, but to reveal. May we grow ever sure in His love.

My heart goes out to Charlie’s wife and kids, his family. Praying grace, grace, grace.