JASON CLARK / PRONE TO LOVE
The conversation revolves around Jason Clark’s book, Prone to Love, the first in a trilogy that Prone to Love that invites the reader to deconstruct fractured beliefs about God and His love.
Jason shares his personal experience of going through a season of feeling distant from God and how it led to a deeper revelation of union. He talks about the importance of embracing tests and challenges as invitations to a greater revelation of God’s nature.
Jason also discusses trust and its relationship to love and boundaries. He emphasizes the need to earn and maintain trust while still extending love to others.
In this conversation, Jason and Bryant explore the concept of grace and its connection to bravery. They explore the idea that grace is not a dualistic concept but rather an invitation to live in the reality of union with God. They also touch on signs and wonders in the charismatic world and how they can be integrated into a holistic understanding of the Kingdom of God.
Please rate, review, share, and subscribe!
Podcast intro and outro music by Wilde Assembly
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Inside Our Delusion
Let me speak plainly. God has never required child sacrifice. It has never been His idea. Rather, it has always been humanity’s perversion—a perversion of God’s goodness and a mockery of the events that took place at the cross.
At the cross, the “Word who became flesh” stepped inside our cruel child sacrifice delusion and took that punishing transactional perversion to its conclusion. He set us free from our depraved death devotion.
For 2000 years, we’ve been awakening to this Truth. Strike that. Since the fall, we’ve been awakening to this Greater Love revelation.
Abraham, like so many today, believed the road to God went through the cruel and punishing sacrifice of his son, but God has always been like Jesus. Like an Emmaus Road Jesus, God walked beside Abraham on his road of lack, God’s true nature hidden even as He revealed Himself.
Like Jesus, God engaged with Abraham in the context of his understanding toward one end—to reveal a greater love that would reconcile Abraham to the Truth that sets him free.
On Mount Moriah, like Jesus on a cross, God stepped inside Abraham’s delusion and revealed that He is nothing like the cruel and punishing transactional gods of Abraham’s day, or those of Jesus’ day, or ours today.
God revealed to Abraham, and through him to us, that whether we understand it or not, whether we agree or not, He has always been like Jesus—a measureless love that has been reconciling us to Himself since before the fall…
This article is excerpted from my book, Leaving and Finding Jesus
JEFF TURNER / THE ATHEISTIC THEIST
In this conversation, Jason and Jeff Turner discuss their experiences with questioning and exploring their faith. They talk about the process of deconstructing their beliefs and the fear and uncertainty that comes with it. In the first half of the conversation, the guys touch on themes from Jeff’s book, Saints in the Arms of a Happy God. They discuss topics such as grace, legalism, pain, leaving and finding Jesus, and the tight-knit community of like-minded individuals.
In the second half of the conversation, they discuss Jeff’s book, The Atheistic Theist: Why There is No God and You Should Follow Him. Jeff shares how atheism was part of Jeff’s journey to a deeper understanding of faith.
The conversation highlights the idea that the journey of faith is not linear, but rather a constant process of discovery, growth, and reawakening. They explore the themes of loss, the discovery of a deeper reality, and the role of love in their spiritual journeys. They emphasize the importance of trust and relational theology in navigating the unnerving process of deconstruction. They also touch on the measureless and timeless reality of love and the significance of language in sharing the journey with others.
For more on Jeff Turner:
Podcast: www.religionless.podbean.com
Website: www.patreon.com/religionless
Please rate, review, share, and subscribe!
Podcast intro and outro music by Wilde Assembly
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No Partiality / part 2 / Peter & Cornelius
Throughout history, God seems to believe His Greater Love is more powerfully inclusive than all our flawed and often exclusive understandings—and it is!
And it was…
Ultimately, the early church’s us or them thinking began to change—often with Peter first. Then one day, when the soil of Peter’s heart could bear good fruit, our Father gave him an offensively good vision that was insightful in two ways. First, God seems to like bacon. Second, as it turns out, God really loves Gentiles. You can read about this vision in Acts 10.
But the fruit of this vision is that it empowered and led Peter to visit the house of Cornelius, a Gentile, a heathen, an outsider, one of them. And on that day, Peter discovered a gospel so expansive as to include the whole world in the finished work of the cross—you see, God was present within the Gentiles.
Peter told Cornelius and his household, “Truly, I understand that God shows no partiality.”
That’s worth underlining.
Then Peter began to share the story of Jesus and cruciform love, the Good News. And as he spoke, “…Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter (the us) were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles (the them).” 1
“Then Peter declared, ‘Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
The answer?
No, of course not!
For nearly a decade, when it came to what the early church believed, Gentiles were out. Then suddenly, Peter discovered what was always true, the Truth that set him free: there is no us or them, no, in or out when it comes to our Heavenly Father and His kids. Peter discovered what Paul later wrote about in Galatians, “There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” 2
“And he (Peter) commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.” 3
The same Peter, who years earlier swung a sword on behalf of his hierarchal thoughts about clean and unclean, Jew and Gentile, in and out, for and against, suddenly recognized and embraced the inclusive nature of reconciling love for the whole world.
Confronted by God’s goodness, Peter repented of the long-standing exclusion on his ideological and theological lens. He changed his mind and aligned his thoughts and actions with Greater Love—and that’s a big deal!
The willingness to face our offense, and repent of our bias and exclusivity when confronted with the measureless nature of God’s inclusiveness, is the birthplace of personal transformation and an absolute requirement for friends of Jesus—especially leaders who are feeding His sheep.
Peter recognized eternal life in the ever-present now through the infilling Spirit of Christ in Cornelius and his household. Suddenly Peter could see what was always true, revelation—Christ’s image and likeness dwelled within all humanity; “Truly…God shows no partiality!”
Because of this revelation, Peter welcomed you, me, and several billion more into the Family—all creation!
As it turns out, we’re all insiders—every tribe and tongue, all humanity—welcomed sons and daughters, the whole world included in the friendship of the Trinity. As it turns out, the Good News is always more inclusive than we last imagined.
To read part 1, CLICK HERE
1 Acts 10:44-45
2 Galatians 3:28
3 Acts 10:47-48
This article is excerpted from my book, Leaving and Finding Jesus / To read part 1, CLICK HERE
No Partiality / part 1 / The Early Church
The early church, led by Peter and a handful of others, was beautiful—and that’s an understatement. From the moment Holy Spirit burst onto the scene in the upper room, as depicted in Acts 2, there was an evangelistic explosion. With “many wonders and signs,” folks were added to the church daily, weekly, and monthly. 1
Unity marked this early church. The phrases “all together” or “of one accord” can be found five times in the first five chapters of Acts. The power of God displayed by leadership was remarkable. Even Peter’s shadow healed people. 2
Young leaders—most notably, Paul and Timothy, both championed by Barnabas; and later James, championed by Peter—were raised up and commissioned to spread the Good News from village to village and city to city. 3
Miracles occurred at a rate the world had never seen. Yes, there was persecution, and yet the church grew, and “throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria [they] had peace and richly increased in numbers.” 4
The presence of Holy Spirit manifested in every aspect of the church. From Pentecost on, Holy Spirit was present and known to fall “on all who heard the word.” 5
In this beautiful church, sons and daughters grew confident in the love of a good Father! This was a church passionately releasing heaven on earth, the Kingdom within us; a church where righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit were deeply rooted in the soul and every aspect of life. 6
This was also a generous church where the lost were being found, the sick healed, the sinner forgiven and transformed, the lonely placed in family, all who were thirsty could come and drink, and “where they sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need.” 7
All could be saved!
Except, well, anyone who wasn’t Jewish.
So, not literally all, I guess. Just, well, the Jewish all.
In those first nine years or so of the early church, when I write, all could be saved, what I mean is that a small exclusive group of people could be saved; all of the included us, but none of the excluded them could be saved.
Just like today, the understanding of the Good News of Jesus within the church and her leadership was limited, but ever-expanding. In those beautifully formative early church days, the limitation was that only Jews were in.
Imagine a church stunning in fellowship—a church Jesus referenced as “the light of the world, a city set on a hill.” 8 Imagine the revelation of eternal life flowing through their veins. Imagine the power of their evangelism.
Now imagine, because of their tradition, culture, and limited understanding, they only shared this life-transforming Good News with a select few. Imagine meetings like the one I had with those two elders, except it was not just women who weren’t at the table. Most of humanity was excluded, as well.
I know. It’s nearly impossible, but imagine a church interpreting Scripture to reveal Jesus as the Savior of a select group, a people who looked, believed, and acted like them—as though atonement was somehow, limited…
Imagine they interpreted Scripture in ways that separated Gentiles from Jews, in from out, and women from ministry.
I know. It’s difficult, but try to imagine a church experiencing profound revelation, favor, life, joy, and unity while simultaneously living with a heart-breaking limited perspective regarding the all-inclusive nature of our heavenly Father.
You may be picking up on some playful sarcasm. Why? Because it’s relatively easy to imagine this church. You’ve likely participated in it. I certainly have. I don’t write that as a condemning statement. Rather, it is an invitation to daily repent—to mature in reconciling Love.
The early church and her leadership were authentic, sincere, and growing in revelation. At the same time, the early church had a serious flaw on its God lens, the same dualistic hierarchal flaw the church and her leadership continue to discover and repent of today.
“Us or them.”
“In or out.”
“Republican or Democrat.”
“Women and Ministry.”
And I could go on.
The early church knew the transformational Truth of reconciliation. They experienced the kindness that leads to repentance, and they followed a friend of Jesus who knew cruciform love and restoration like few others.
Peter and the early church grew in the revelation of an all-inclusive reconciling love. Yet, even in the daily miraculous manifestation of God’s goodness, for the first nine years or so, the early church seemed oblivious to the devastating us or them flaw on their God lens—especially pertaining to Gentiles… and women in ministry.
God didn’t ignore their delusions nor condemn them for their exclusivity. He just walked beside them as the Wayfaring Stranger and kept speaking to their burning hearts. Like that Farmer who went out to sow seed, Measureless Love just kept sowing into every limitation of their understanding, every delusion, every hierarchy of exclusion, and every cruel and punishing missing of the mark.
To read part 2, CLICK HERE
1 Acts 2:43 & 5:12
2 Acts 5
3 Acts 12
4 Acts 9:31
5 Acts 10:44
6 Romans 14:17
7 Acts 2:45
8 Matthew 5:14
This article is excerpted from my book, Leaving and Finding Jesus / To read part 2, CLICK HERE
An Eye For An Eye
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye…”
An eye for an eye is a phrase you can find throughout Scripture. It’s a phrase often used to define justice today, but there are two ways to interpret it. We, in the West, tend to interpret the phrase punitively—through the lens of a God who punishes.
It goes like this: If I take your eye, my eye will be taken from me as punishment. Unfortunately, as the adage goes, this makes the whole world blind.
This interpretation is not justice—it’s revenge. There is no eternal life in it, just more blindness, violence, cruelty, punishment, and concrete dead ends down the road of lack.
In this interpretation, no opportunity exists for repentance, transformation, restoration, or reconciliation for the person who took the eye. Nor does it help the one whose eye has been taken. There is no opportunity to forgive or experience true healing and wholeness.
But this statement can be interpreted another way. Many Jewish and early church fathers understood an eye for an eye as restorative. It goes like this: If I take your eye, I become your eye. Essentially, I endeavor to restore what I took from you. This is the nature of reconciliation.
In this interpretation, there is both consequence and opportunity to repent and be transformed—to be restored to the community and to be reconciled to our true selves. In this interpretation of justice, there is an opportunity for forgiveness, healing, and wholeness.
Jesus described this brand of justice in Matthew 5: “You have heard the law that says the punishment must match the injury: ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say, do not resist an evil person! If someone slaps you on the right cheek, offer the other cheek also…you have heard the law that says, ‘Love your neighbor’ and hate your enemy. But I say, love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you!” 2
Jesus corrected their interpretation of Scripture, even going so far as to provide Himself as the hermeneutic—“You have heard the law that says…but I say.” Then Jesus displayed this brand of justice on a cross—the justice that saves the world.
Jesus’ death and resurrection were the foundation of everything He said and did. “Father, forgive them, for they don’t know what they do,” was His starting line. God, reconciling all humanity to Himself, not counting our sins against us, was the beginning and end—the greater love authority from which Jesus lived, moved, and had His being. All was said and done from and toward one end—reconciliation and restoration.
Reconciliation and restoration are God’s plans for justice.
Salvation for everyone.
1 Matthew 5:38a
2 Matthew 5:38-39 & 43-44 NAS
This article is excerpted from my book, Leaving and Finding Jesus
TO READ MORE ON THIS SUBJECT, CLICK HERE
Jesus, The Objective Definition Of The Word Good
“Jason, I think it’s really important that we all agree on the definition of the word ‘good.’ You might think something is good while someone else might think that very same thing is bad.”
I nodded in agreement with the fella.
He was right; for the entirety of my life, much of the church has seemed pretty confused about the definition of a lot of words—the word ‘good’ chief among them. Looking back through history, it appears to be a confusion nearly as old as time—especially when describing the nature of God.
But I recognized by the tension and tone of the fella’s voice, and by how quickly he stood when the pastor asked if “anyone had any thoughts or questions,” that he was unnerved and possibly offended.
It was a Wednesday night at a local church where I had just finished speaking on the always good, never leaving, reconciling love of God. I had told a story about a fan in the Philippines that oscillated; one moment, it was my reward, the next, my punishment.
And I’d shared that Greater Love isn’t like that fan. He isn’t fickle. He is never our punishment and always our reward. Greater Love has never turned away. He never oscillates.
Over the years, I’ve discovered the more I share on the never-oscillating, non-punishing, always-good love of God, the more I am challenged on the definition of the word ‘good.’
My early responses were simply a confused, “Good means good.” But I’ve learned, when it comes to the nature of God, while we all read from the same Bible, we’re not all searching through the same lens.
So, it’s understandable we might wrestle with our definitions.
When you grow up in the disparity of a loving God who oscillates, a kind God with a hateful streak—when God’s goodness is often presented through the cruel and punishing lens of hell trains, you’re forced to do mental gymnastics around the definition of a lot of words. And many Christian backs have been broken trying to acrobat our way around the word good.
I opened my iPad and went to the dictionary definition I had put there years earlier for just such occasions.
“Good: morally excellent; virtuous, righteous, of high quality, worth, benefit. Good could be used in a sentence as follows: What good will that do? We shall work for the common good. To do good. To be a power for good.”
Then, I told a story about the street taco I had in Mexico City.
In short, it wasn’t good.
And when I say, “It wasn’t good,” I am not referring to its flavor. I’m not writing subjectively. Rather, I’m talking about the following 24 hours I spent hugging a toilet while lying on a tiled public bathroom floor in an old church just outside Mexico City.
While the taco tasted good, as it turned out, it wasn’t good. And this delineation is both important and easy to grasp.
Words mean something. Good has a definition that is wildly different from the definition of the word bad.
That taco was the opposite of good, the antonym, bad—that’s the word. And not just bad; it was cruel and punishing! But I digress.
When I use the word good to describe God, I am not communicating subjectively. I’m not making “a god to my own liking,” as offended brothers and sisters have occasionally suggested. My subjective thoughts don’t get a say in how Jesus defined the word, and Jesus is the revelation of what good means.
Jesus is the sovereign definition of “morally excellent, virtuous, righteous, of high quality, worth, and benefit.”
And Jesus fully revealed goodness as Greater Love when He laid His life down for you and me. God’s goodness is self-giving, other-centered love. It is “patient, kind, does not envy, does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others; it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs, and does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, and always perseveres.” 1
Always!
And it’s a sovereign always.
So, dear church, let’s get on the same page. God’s love is always good, as Jesus defined it.
I agreed with the fella. The whole world is desperate to know and experience the objective definition of the word good. More to the point of this book, the whole world needs the Church to foundationally define the word good on the Greatef Love Cornerstone—Christ crucified and risen! This goodness is the certainty upon which we can build our faith.
When it comes to the nature of God, we, the Church, must stop manipulating the word good to fit our cruel theologies and punishing interpretations of God and Scripture. The goodness of God is not a subjective ‘flavor of the day,’ nor does it bend the knee to our experience, understanding, or hermeneutic. God is love, and His goodness doesn’t oscillate; it is not cruel nor fickle like the wind. It does not punish and has never left or forsaken us.
The goodness of God is revealed in a Son who lays down His life, a Holy Spirit who always reconciles, and in a faithful Father who never leaves. Greater Love has never once looked away.
1 1 Corinthians 13:4-7
This article is excerpted from my book, Leaving and Finding Jesus
TO READ MORE ON THIS SUBJECT, CLICK HERE
That Time I Was Asked About Ultimate Reconciliation
Recently I shared about the ultimate nature of reconciling love on a Zoom Call with a group of young radicals in Australia. During a question and response time at the end of the call, I was asked about my thoughts on hell. They inquired, “Can we be saved after we die?”
I smiled and hesitated. In that brief pause, the lady who was leading, graciously said, “Jason, this is a safe place.”
It caught me funny, and I laughed in a way that was cathartic and healing.
Then, while wiping the humor from my eyes, I said, “Thanks for letting me know it’s a safe place. I believe you. But I laughed because the last time I responded to this question in what I thought was a safe place, my family and I were kicked out.”
* * *
There’s nothing safe about a retributive view of God; there’s nothing safe about a God who uses a gun.
I’ve learned first-hand that if you step on the toes of a gun-carrying God culture, even if they’re family, you’re likely to get shot. A church that believes in a God of retribution will participate in punishment—often cruelly, and blindly—even with those they love. Anyone who questions the nature of authority-by-way-of-a-gun will quickly realize they are only as safe as their conformity. And if they can’t comply, they will, at some point, find themselves on the wrong end of the gun. And that’s the opposite of a safe place.
I answered the question, “Can we be saved after we die” this way.
• Hell exists here and now, and we have been invited to discover and establish eternal life, heaven on earth, here and now.
• Family is the long game; it transcends dimensions of time and space, and God is our infinitely good and eternal Father.
• If my hope isn’t placed in reconciling love, I will find myself, in one way or another, aligned with the older brother at odds with my Dad’s reconciling heart.
• I can’t afford to undermine my faith by entertaining any certainty that conflicts with Greater Love.
I want to be fully engaged in the reconciliation party because everything our Heavenly Father has He has given to us, it’s ours! But only in love can we access it.
So, when someone asks, “Can you be saved after you die?” my best response is, “I think God is like Jesus, so…
“Yes, I sure hope so.”
This article is excerpted from my book, Leaving and Finding Jesus
TO READ MORE ON THIS SUBJECT, CLICK HERE
Grossly Misinterpreted
My whole life, I’ve heard the message of the cross presented from pulpits and platforms, mostly by well-meaning preachers and teachers, as a moment in time when a good Father abandoned His Son.
You’re likely familiar with it, too. It often sounded like, “The Father looked away. He turned His face. He could not look upon sin.” If you Google the phrase, “God turned His face,” you’ll find endless books and teachings on God’s abandoning, sin-counting, cruel, and punishing nature.
My wife, Karen, as a children’s pastor, paid especially close attention to our children’s curriculum and constantly searched for a children’s Bible that she didn’t have to redact. In one of the best Bibles she found, she still had to black out the grossly misinterpreted interaction between a Father and His beloved Son.
“’Papa,’ Jesus cried frantically, searching the sky. ‘Papa? Where are you? Don’t leave me!’…Nothing happened. Just a horrible, endless silence. Papa turned away from His Boy…”
Do you wonder why we have a Deconstruction movement today? I think it’s partly because many Christians have been forced to build their faith upon the shaky foundation of an oscillating “Papa who turned away from His Boy.”
We have been taught, and then passed along to our kids in their formative years, a “good” God with kindness in one hand and a Skill Saw in the other. We read “Papa turned away from His Boy” to our kids and then wonder why they don’t trust God later in life.
It’s pretty simple. You can’t trust a Father who turns His back on His Son in His most desperate hour of need, but this teaching is woven into our Western Evangelical approach to God. A “Papa who turned away from His Boy” is preached from pulpits, taught in our Sunday schools, found in our discipleship books, and has infiltrated our worship songs.
“The Father looked away” is a lyrical trope employed by many sincere worship songwriters. The song How Deep the Father’s Love contradicts its title with the unsettling lyric, “How great the pain of searing loss—the Father turns His face away.” Apparently, though the Father’s love is deep, it’s not quite deep enough to stay with His Son in His most desperate hour. And that’s a trust-compromising problem.
In the song, God of Calvary, “The sky went dark, the Angels wept,” and “the Father looked away.”
No, He didn’t!
The idea that “Papa turned away from His Boy” is heretical bullshit!
He does not oscillate; nothing separates us from His love…
This article is excerpted from my book, Leaving and Finding Jesus
TO READ MORE ON THIS SUBJECT, CLICK HERE
Love Keeps No Record…
1 Corinthians 13 is one of the most beautiful descriptions of love, a chapter often used at weddings. So, most of us are familiar.
The chapter describes love as patient and kind and continues by laying out the stunning attributes of God. Tucked between “Love isn’t easily angered” and “Love doesn’t delight in evil” is a powerful world-changing truth:
“Love keeps no record of wrongs….”
Jesus, Love in human form, hanging on a cross between heaven and earth, His body battered, the lie of separation a veil between Him and His Father, the myth of abandonment cutting Him off from sensing His Father’s affection; the fiction that God punishes screaming its message through the iron nails that tore His flesh and held Him fast to a cross, reveals the power of a free will submitted to love.
Jesus—fully God, fully Man, one with Father, intimate with Holy Spirit—forgives. And His forgiveness confronts the transactional, sin-counting, retributive justice payment system—“What seems right to a man.” (1)
Casting back to before the beginning and looking forward to after the end, Jesus keeps no record of the wrong humanity has committed. “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do,” He said. And the power of that Greater Love saves the world.
Do you know what happened when Jesus kept no record of our wrongs?
He couldn’t justify His right to hold onto offense—and all creation was reborn in that powerful conclusion.
And we’ve been invited to live in that same powerfully transformative freedom!
All creation has been invited to awaken to that reconciling measureless revelation. Love doesn’t count sins; it keeps no record of wrong!
(1) Proverbs 14:12
This article is excerpted from my book, Leaving and Finding Jesus