Reveal / Defend
Years ago, I was on staff at a church where the worship leader and I had radical differences about theology. One week, I preached a message declaring that everyone in the room was a spiritual giant. I was speaking to our identity, our original innocence, and the invitation to participate in the finished work of the Cross.
The following week, the worship pastor stood with an actual whip in his hand and preached the opposite. He declared we are prone to wander and that God looks away. “There are no spiritual giants in this room,” he said. It was heartbreaking. His theology, to me, was wrong, toxic, and deeply flawed.
I stood in the back of the room for the third and final service. “Father, what am I doing here?” I asked. And then He reminded me who He is and who I am. LOVE. Measureless, other-centered, self-giving, transforming LOVE.
“You’re here to be LOVE—to be a walking revelation of My affection.” He said. “You’re here to reveal, not defend.” He reminded me that Love keeps no record of wrong and thus has no right to be offended.
Then my Father highlighted a fella who stood in the back row, arms stretched wide, tears streaming down his face. “That man is having an encounter with my love.” My Father said.
For a split second, I was annoyed. “But the message is wrong, toxic, it’s deeply flawed!” I thought. Then just as quick, my heart shifted as I heard my Father whisper, “Yes, Jason, the
message is wrong, toxic, it’s deeply flawed. But one encounter with My love is more powerful than anything else. My love is transformative, sustaining. My love is the long game. And I’ve never limited myself to your poor theology.”
That moment defined my ministry. God meets us where we are, in the middle of our flawed theology. He speaks in the language of our understanding.
I realized that man was unlikely ready to hear the good news as I had discovered it; he was lost in the knowledge of good and evil, a prodigal who only understood slaving, the context of transaction. It’s heartbreaking, but the whip message was the language of his understanding.
Was his understanding deeply flawed? Yes. But that’s the road he was traveling, and thus that’s the road our Father met him on. Our Father chased Him down and embraced Him, knowing that embrace would ultimately, over time, and hopefully in this life, reveal the Gospel. The good news that would set him truly and fully free. There is no shadow of turning with Thee, and thus there is no earning, no whip. Love is unconditional.
The point? Our Father did not limit His kind affection to the flawed words coming from the man on stage. No, our Father ran to meet his son, who only wanted to know he was loved! Our Father knew that over time, His measureless love would transform any part of the son’s wrong, toxic, and deeply flawed theology.
I’ve given my life to rethinking my theology. It matters. The closer we are to knowing Greater Love — the more our God lens is like Jesus — the more we experience eternal life. But it’s a journey.
My journey into this union grace has been 51 hard-fought, intentional years where my Father continues to faithfully meet me in my wrong, toxic, and deeply flawed theology.
And this is why I’m encouraged today. You see, I’m not alone. And while it’s taken me 51 years of growing conviction in this Greater love gospel, these days, I meet people who are just as confident at half my age. And then there are the fathers and mothers who are mature in their union – LOVE.
Union, grace, it’s in the ether. We have books, and language, ministries, people, the church, deep and wide, maturing in love.
Right now, there is a spiritual hunger in our world, while at the same time, there is an awakening within the church. Yes, there are distorted versions of Jesus being presented and leveraged, but there’s also a groundswell of sons and daughters, brothers and sisters, friends who are convinced in His affection.
Yesterday, I recognized that man from the church years ago in the upraised arms of hundreds of thousands as we celebrated Charlie Kirk’s life and mourned his death. And I heard my Father whisper. “Yes, Jason, some of the message is wrong, toxic, it’s deeply flawed. But one encounter with My love is more powerful than anything else. My love is transformative, sustaining. My love is the long game.”
I watched yesterday in the liberty of a gospel that doesn’t require agreement or the “right” theology. A gospel that isn’t limited to our finite fears but is a measureless love that casts out fear. A Love that meets us where we are and, thank God, doesn’t leave us there but journeys with us. A love that transforms.
Many are worried about how Charlie’s passing has been politicized. Some are concerned about the left, others about the right. We live in a dualistic world, where the knowledge of good and evil always creates a vortex that pulls people in. It is a tired and powerless waste of time. There is no eternal life to be found in it.
But here’s a word of encouragement: we’re not here to defend, but to reveal. May we grow ever sure in His love.
My heart goes out to Charlie’s wife and kids, his family. Praying grace, grace, grace.
MALCOLM SMITH / HOLY SPIRIT, THE GENIUS TEACHER
In this heartfelt conversation, Malcolm Smith and Jason explore the beauty and friendship of the Holy Spirit. From stories of Malcolm’s teenage encounter with what he calls “liquid love,” to reflections on prayer, revelation, and union with the Trinity, this episode is full of wisdom, intimacy, and joy.
Malcolm shares how the Spirit has been his lifelong teacher and best friend—not a distant doctrine, but a living presence guiding him into all truth. Together, they challenge the separation mindset of much of modern Christianity, and instead emphasize wholeness, intimacy, and our mattering deeply to God. The conversation concludes with Malcolm praying Paul’s Ephesians 1 prayer—that the eyes of our hearts would be opened to see the hope, identity, and resurrection power alive in us.
For more on Malcolm Smith
Website: https://www.unconditionallovefellowship.com/
Website: https://www.malcolmsmith.org/
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DAMON THOMPSON / AWAKENING TO BELOVED IDENTITY
In this engaging conversation, Damon Thompson and Jason explore themes of spiritual awakening, identity in Christ, and the transformative power of love. They share personal stories of metanoia, radical encounters with God, and the journey from a performance-based faith to a relationship rooted in beloved identity.
The discussion highlights the importance of challenging doctrinal certainties and embracing the nature of the Father as loving and nurturing, ultimately leading to a deeper understanding of one’s identity as the beloved of God.
Damon and Jason discuss divine love, trust, and the importance of family dynamics in faith. They dive into how understanding God’s love can transform relationships and communities, emphasizing the need for rest and trust in the midst of life’s storms. The dialogue also touches on the significance of generational legacy, the peculiar nature of God’s people, the reformative movements within the church that challenge traditional views, the historical influences shaping modern theology, and the transformative power of goodness and love.
Ultimately, the guys highlight the importance of revelation and the transformative power of love in shaping a new understanding of faith. They discuss the importance of connecting across generations and building bridges within faith communities, emphasizing the joy of shared experiences and the opportunities for growth and connection in their journeys.
For more on Damon Thompson
Website: www.damonthompson.com
YouTube: Link
The Homestead: www.thehomesteadmobile.com
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RUDI LOUW / AWAKENING TO WHAT IS ETERNALLY TRUE
In this conversation, Jason and Jeff Turner discuss their experiences with questioning and exploring their faith. They talk about the process of deconstructing their beliefs and the fear and uncertainty that comes with it. In the first half of the conversation, the guys touch on themes from Jeff’s book, Saints in the Arms of a Happy God. They discuss topics such as grace, legalism, pain, leaving and finding Jesus, and the tight-knit community of like-minded individuals.
In the second half of the conversation, they discuss Jeff’s book, The Atheistic Theist: Why There is No God and You Should Follow Him. Jeff shares how atheism was part of Jeff’s journey to a deeper understanding of faith.
The conversation highlights the idea that the journey of faith is not linear, but rather a constant process of discovery, growth, and reawakening. They explore the themes of loss, the discovery of a deeper reality, and the role of love in their spiritual journeys. They emphasize the importance of trust and relational theology in navigating the unnerving process of deconstruction. They also touch on the measureless and timeless reality of love and the significance of language in sharing the journey with others.
For more on Rudi Louw:
Books: Amazon
Facebook: www.facebook.com/rudi.louw.39
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JACK HABERER / SWIMMING WITH SHARKS
In this conversation, Jason and his uncle, Jack Haberer, discuss Jack’s journey in ministry and his new book, Swimming with Sharks: Leading The Full Spectrum Church In A Red And Blue World.
The book addresses the polarization within American Christianity and offers insights on fostering unity across denominations and ideologies. They explore the importance of speaking the truth in love and embracing a full spectrum approach to church, where all voices are heard and valued.
They also discuss the need to go beyond dualistic thinking and embrace the revelation of God’s love and grace. The conversation highlights the significance of understanding the true nature of Jesus and applying his teachings in a politically divided world.
For more information on Jack Haberer
Website: www.jackhaberer.com
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DON KEATHLEY / A GRACE AWAKENING!
This conversation between Jason and Don Keathley dives into Don’s history and the evolution that led to the Grace Awakening Network.
The guys discuss the transformative power of grace, the Fatherhood of God, unconditional love, inclusion, and the practicality of the manifestation of the sons of God. The conversation delves into the importance of trust, the revelation of God’s love, and the significance of becoming the light of the world. They also explore the concept of faith and the measureless revelation of God’s love.
The conversation delves into the concept of sonship and the revelation of the Father’s love, emphasizing the integration of Jesus’ identity with our own. It explores the idea of theosis and the developmental process of becoming the fullest measure of the stature of Christ.
The discussion also touches on the nature of rest, the seamless flow between two realms, and the transformation of hearts and minds through union with the Father.
For more information on Don Keathley
YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/
Website: www.donkeathley.com
Global Grace Seminary: www.globalgraceseminary.net/don-keathley/
GAN: www.gantv.com
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BOB HAMP / THINK DIFFERENTLY LIVE DIFFERENTLY
This conversation with Bob Hamp and co-host, Brooke Waters, explores the themes of freedom, identity, and transformation, emphasizing the shift from religious performance to relational experience. It delves into the concept of thinking differently, highlighting the process of becoming who we are created to be. The conversation delves into the topics of identity, behavior, freedom, and the nature of God’s love. It explores the idea that behavior follows identity. The concept of the kingdom of God and the discovery of oneness is also discussed, emphasizing the role of consent and freedom in the context of love.
The conversation touches on the restoration of the self and the invitation to return to a place of oneness with God. The conversation delves into the practical application of relational theology, the impact of false narratives, and the role of theology in real-life scenarios. It also explores the nature of God as revealed in Jesus and the misassignment of responsibility in abuse situations within the church.
This episode delves into the impact of family dynamics on personal identity, the absence of responsible parenting, and the cultural shift towards self-focus. It also explores the concept of revival and the future of the church, emphasizing a flatter, more community-oriented structure.
For more information on Bob Hamp
Website: www.tdacad.com
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CHANNOCK BANET, CORY RICE, MATTHEW HESTER / 3 PASTORS, 4 MICS & TACOS
Channock Banet and Cory Rice are the senior and teaching pastors at Hill City Church just outside Louisville, KT, and the hosts of 2 Pastors And A Mic Podcast. Matthew Hester is the senior pastor of Dominion Church in the Greenville, SC, area, and the host of The Kingdom Is For Everyone Podcast.
Jason joins the guys in the Hill City Church studio to talk about the perfection of God’s love, the awakening within the church to union, relational theology that practically transforms our communities, how leaving the idolatry of separation impacts our thoughts on justice, heaven, and hell, friendship with God, the Kingdom alive and active in us, and seeing Christ in everyone.
For more information on Channock & Cory and 2 Pastors And A Mic 
/ @hillcityindiana
For more information on Matthew Hester and The Kingdom Is For Everyone
www.hesterministries.org
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DOUGLAS CAMPBELL & JON DEPUE / BEYOND JUSTIFICATION
Beyond Justification: Liberating Paul's Gospel
This conversation, co-hosted by Paul Golf, explores Douglas Campbell and Jon DePue’s book, Beyond Justification: Liberating Paul’s Gospel. The guys discuss the practical implications of their theological perspective and its impact on the church and society. The relational nature of God’s revelation and the transformative power of understanding God’s kindness and reconciliation are central themes.
This conversation delves into the concept of Christian Universalism, the impact of theological beliefs on individuals, and the importance of rethinking traditional perspectives. The conversation also touches on the significance of understanding God’s love and the practical implications of our beliefs in everyday life.
For more on Douglass Campbell
Website: www.douglascampbell.me
For more on Jon DePue
YouTube: www.youtube.com/c/ApocalypseHere
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BRENT LOKKER / UNION REVELATION
In this conversation, Brent Lokker and Jason share personal experiences and insights into the understanding of union with Christ, emphasizing the importance of seeing God’s love and grace in every aspect of life. They discuss the revelation of God’s goodness and the transformation it brings.
Shame, freedom, awakening to the perfection of God’s love, the power of revelation, belonging, authenticity, and the power of seeing others as filled with God’s glory; in this conversation, Brent and Jason share stories that illustrate the heart of the Father and His desire to draw us into a relationship with Him.
For more on Brent Lokker
YouTube: www.youtube.com/@vibrantlife4you
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